Sad

[lucianus]

There's been a lot of discussion lately about the structure of events. A number of people have expressed some pretty strong opinions about what they think events should be like and about the oppression they feel from other people at events who want to create a more period atmosphere. I can't pretend otherwise, I found a lot of it pretty hurtful.

It makes me kind of sad to think that just by doing what I enjoy - that is trying to create a little space in which one might be "transported" if only for a minute or learn something new - would make people feel like I might be oppressing them. I thought people were having fun with me, no one ever said anything otherwise to me or I wouldn't have continued.

Now I have to ask myself if its ok for me to bring a period style table and chair, or feast gear, or dish that I've cooked to events any more or am I being too exclusive? I have and make these sorts of things and enjoy them and like to use them and if I can teach someone a little bit about history with those few props then that makes me even happier. Would I even be welcome at a simple event such as are being proposed or would my presence there be oppressing to the organizers and other people attending? I don't know.

Anyway you slice it though, it just makes me sad.

Comments

[anastasiav.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you're sad.

If it helps any, you've been a big inspiration to us. I never feel oppressed around you. :-)

What I've learned in the past few years is that the best way to encourage period-ness is to simply be it, have cool stuff, and give people advice when asked. For example, Aldrich's leadership ... his desire to have the stuff and then his willingness to have and share his stuff ... made "being more period" a lot less scary for a lot of people. You inspire.

You inspire.

[rosinavs.livejournal.com]

I would be sad if you weren't there, and I appreciate efforts to make things at events look a little more period. I never looked for the "transported" thing and was seriously doubtful that it was possible until it happened to me last spring. I'm not looking for it to happen again, but I'm willing to try a little harder not to burst others' bubble. Besides, at this point you have fed me so many times as I've stopped by your camp I owe you several dinners. Don't stop feeding me, please!

[evil-macaroni.livejournal.com]

Um, what anastasiav said.
I recall being a newbie and admiring the period stuff other people had. I never felt excluded ... just a mite envious. So I don't really understand why people would be upset by your bringing your beautiful collection of feast gear / furniture. And I also don't understand why people would join the SCA if they didn't want to learn about history and techniques for recreating the artifacts of the middle ages.
Keep doing what makes you happy. You are not a period nazi and if hypersensitive people can't deal with *seeing* the kewl stuff you have then it's really their problem, not yours. *hugs*

[baronessv.livejournal.com]

I feel like I must have missed part of a discussion somewhere. I hate that!
You are totally not the Oppressor. I do not know who these people are feeling oppressed by, but I cannot imagine it is you. The times that I have known you, you have proved to be nothing but excited to show other people the cool stuff you have done, and NEVER in a way that was derisive of their own efforts.
You are lots of fun. You make neat stuff. I've never heard you say a mean thing about anyone, no matter how heinous their offense. And you understand that drinking alcohol is period! All these things are admirable, and IMHO, worth emulating.

[hugh-mannity.livejournal.com]

Oh good grief!!! Some people are absolute idiots.

You are a constant source of amazement and inspiration to me. I can think of nothing better than to be able to do some of the stuff you do.

Sometimes I'm a bit intimidated by the sheer number of skills you have and the phenomenal quality of your work -- but that just makes me want to do my stuff better.

I've never heard you being derisive of other's work, belittling their efforts, or deriding their taste or workmanship. I've heard you praise and encourage others.

Give me a few weeks to work on my fencing then send those critics to me -- I'll point out the flaws in their thinking with the aid of a pointy stick or two!!

[its-just-me.livejournal.com]

Personally, I've dropped my attendance from most SCA events for a number of reasons.

1. Blatently obvious modern items such as phones, cigarettes, iPods completley kill the feel for me.
2. SCA politics
3. The opposite end of the spectrum when being chastised for not having/eating/wearing something that is 100% documentable.
4. Pennsic for me has degenrated into a big frat boy party and doesn't seem even remotely SCA related any longer.

On a positive I would think that someone demonstrating a period persona in all of what it should be would be welcome so long as it doesn't turn into the so called period police officer. I can't imagine someone such as yourself in that category though. I have never seen nor heard of you going out of your way to correct/educate.anyone without being approached.

[vynehorn.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear that there are people out there who are so insecure as to be intimidated by what you do.

I have been, and continue to be, inspired by you - your skills, activities and positive attitude that you bring to the SCA. I want to be just like you (or jdulac) when I grow up. :-)

Oppressed by you?? I don't get it.

You're always welcome in my barony!

[estela-dufrayse.livejournal.com]

Please don't stop what you are doing.

If anything, I have found over the years we have lost a lot of what I joined the SCA for. We all need to get some of that back again.

Using titles, bowing and curtsying, making fabulous clothes and furniture and food, dressing for Court.

You both are inspiring, please keep doing it!

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you're sad, and I'm sorry for any part I may have played in it by starting a tangential thread in my own LJ. My thread was started to be about demos and recruitment, not an attempt to constrain your beautiful camp or your fantastic craftsmanship. Don't stop.

And yes, you and yours would be welcome at the simple events which have been proposed in various spots this week!! (But you might have to eat under-documented food...)

[kls-eloise.livejournal.com]

I think that people doing what you are trying to, *in the way* that you do it bring us forward. I can think of one or two people offhand who might qualify as oppressive (naming no names, because I don't think it's intentional.) They're the people who when I come to an event and I'm all excited about the fact that I finally figured out how that sleeve works, and look, look - it looks just like the illumination, isn't that COOL... give me a look that says "You DO know that your veil is completely wrong, don't you?" After 20 years of doing this, they still make me feel like a small grubby child.

However.

What you guys are doing is what I'm trying to do - lead by example. Be as authentic as possible, and have visible fun doing it. Make people look at it and say "I *want* that." Be approachable enough for them to come over and ask me how I did it. Give them a managable bite of information, not a core dump that overwhelms them and makes them give up.

The SCA is growing up. Our population is aging in the group, and those of us who want to stay interested for another 20 years need to keep moving. That means that we'll have a spectrum from the likes of Rod to the newbie in a polyester tunic at any given time. But if people like you and I aren't around having fun with our authentic gear, how can that newbie know to aspire to anything higher?

[soteltie.livejournal.com]

Luke, please, please keep doing what you do. You continue to make the SCA a better place for me by setting a wonderful example, inspiring, and teaching anyone who is willing to learn.

You are part of what makes event magic happen for me and I'm so glad to have you here. I just wish we both hadmuch more time to play together :-)

>what they think events should be like
It is nostalgia for events that some people remember fondly, but maybe also there is some nostalgia for parts of their lives when things were simpler.

Some people don't actually get to very many events anymore. When they do, things aren't the same as they remembered. Things and people are unfamiliar and it makes them uncomfortable. Some things have lost their shiny new feeling and glow. Mundane life and busyness means less time to focus on event preparations and sharing pre-event excitement. People arrive at events late and weary, and need to leave early, in order to balance family needs and commitments. Running parts of events means that you don't get to hang out and "be" at the event or see your friends.

I've been struggling with how I would respond to some of the recent posts. Some of the ideas proposed seemed like things I had been very glad to leave in the past.

Some of the ideas reminded me of events I have been to in other groups (not naming names) within the last few years. I had many a good time and made new friends.

Sometimes I shared some event-running knowlege, but other times I kept it to myself and just went with the flow and tried to be a good guest. Parts of these events were simple and fun, yes, but sometimes parts were disorganized, boring, or annoying. And afterwards I am always very glad to return home to Carolingia. We've learned how to get beyond so many things I think of as pitfalls (nope, they don't fit into the category of "rustic charm" or "good 'ol days" for me).

The wonderful thing about the SCA is that we have room for all of it.
Hugs,
j

In one word

[cristovau.livejournal.com]

Bullshit!

There are many games and goals in the society. The thing is, they should be able to co-exist. You have been a model for co-existence from your end of the spectrum for as long as I've known you.

You have never turned your back, or nose up to, someone who wasn't meeting your standard of authenticity. In fact, you have welcomed people who were honestly barely trying. That continues to amaze me. With you perfect kits from different eras, you still have time to smile and explain things to the kid in the over-sized t-shirt.

There has been a lot of talk about waning enthusiasm and recruitment. The more I think on it, the more elaborate the issue becomes. It is easy to point at a trend and say "There's the fault!" but the answer isn't that simple. It burns me up that you now feel responsible while you do so much to try and reverse the trend and make authenticity exciting and accessible.

Like I said, BULLSHIT.

[marysdress.livejournal.com]

Having been part of two of those discussions, I think you went off at a 90 degree angle from where the discussions were actually going. Understandable, but not accurate and your hurt feelings aren't actually warranted even though I can completely understand how they happened.

The oppressive elements discussed were the people who openly criticize less period elements (which isn't you) and whether there are cultural expectations of more detailed "periodness" which are intimidating people and holding back people who can't meet those expectations from contributing what they can do.

Admittedly you and your main squeeze contribute to cultural expectations all out of proportion to a normal person. By virtue of your positions, you set the style and the fashion. You are the heart and soul of the Barony. Unintentionally you set the bar to which others compare themselves and the tone by which the group runs itself. It comes with the hat.

You're very good at being period. You spend more effort at it than many people can or want to. A person doesn't have to be insecure to be intimidated by what you have achieved or do. It's damned impressive.

Does that mean you shouldn't do what you want to or not have fun? Of course not. This isn't a job - it's supposed to be fun or why do it? It reminds me of one of the speeches a peer I know gives. "You're a peer - your job now is to make sure that others are having fun. However, it also has to be fun for you."

Do what's fun and encourage others to do what's fun for them too. Nothing oppressive about that.

[annodomini.livejournal.com]

Please do continue to set an example of being authentically period is. As someone who is new to the society and still trying to find my way, I find that I'm really helped by seeing some good period garb and tableware, and tasting period food. I would like to be able to do more of that myself, but without examples to look to, I would be somewhat lost as to where to start.

The main problem that I have is that it feels like you need to be a dedicated, hard-working laurel to actually achieve anything close to period. There aren't enough classes that are accessible to a beginner that focus on really producing only period results. There aren't enough merchants who sell period items (I've been looking for over a year for some good tableware that matches my persona, and haven't found anything). When I ask many people where they got something that is particularly period, the answer is frequently that it was a gift from a friend, or bartered for something they made, which is something that's very hard for someone new to do.

So, I heartily appreciate those who set a good example of what period is, and I hope that that helps spread the idea of being authentic to more teachers, more merchants, and more people who are introducing new people to the society. Period shouldn't be something scary that only laurels can do; it should be something that everyone has a shot at.

Don't try to be clever; we are all clever here. Try to be kind, a little kind.

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Luke, please keep doing what you do. One of the most important things is for people to keep doing, quietly, what we love. (Says the woman who was having dark thoughts about quitting on Tuesday...) because as we show people cool stuff from period they get excited about it and do stuff.

Reading the thread in Marysdress suggests to me that what needs to happen is *more* of what you do-- kind attention to people whatever their rank/level of authenticity. If someone in really good garb makes me feel welcome (and you know how I dress) and talks to me about cool stuff-- and asks me about cool stuff-- I feel less uncomfortable than I would in a room full of costumers trying not to look at my bad garb.

How do we do this in foodie culture? that's a good question.

[beard5.livejournal.com]

You know there are a lot of better responses to this, in your comments, than this one. However, please don't stop what you do. I may not be the most authentically dressed individual, but it's steps on a path (to my goal of a Scare-Small-Children-Fancy-Elizabethan™)Folks like you inspire me to work better at it.

Also, your sheer willingness (nay enthusiasm) to share what you know has inspired me to consider some armoring ideas (Not for myself, you don't have to fear *that* particular dreadful calamity, but as gifts to new fighters. there has to be a way to do it, that looks period, but doesn't cost a fortune. I'm thinking brigandines) Bluntly, I'd never considered armor, nor paid much attention to the fighters. Not out of intentional disrespect, but out of not understanding what they do. You and jdulac have helped open my eyes to that side of the SCA better than any of the fighters I know. Just through example.

And lastly, the way you run a kitchen, period recipes and all, is truly wonderful. You found taste combinations that were utterly foreign to my experience, and made them familiar and wonderful. (I'll generally try anything, but some flavor combinations are just strange to my taste buds...until sampling the lamb at Crossroads, that was a revelation)

It's absolutely okay for you to do what you do. And those that are feeling oppressed by it I have a heartfelt *pfui!*

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

Why is it that the ones that never do harm, are the ones that take such general criticisms too much to heart?

I've found that the trick (both in my own work, and in what elevated me to try being more authentic - though I could do better) was to find who was having more fun, and who allowed me to join in, and who would help me.

I've rarely seen anyone more inclusive or helpful than you - it would be hard to find someone that teaches more, shares more, or is more generous in knowledge, space and time. And, for that matter, you also generate activities and opportunities that help others have more fun.

If there is a way to try and elevate the work of the Society, you have a teaching knack for that way.

Sure, there may be people who think that a person with more accouterments and such will be exclusive. The only way to help a person who reflexively stops themselves from meeting others, is to have someone like yourself who stops and says hi.

You are, and pardon the emphasis, THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT SORT OF PROBLEM. Seriously.

(I think the only possible harm that you might do, is that you work so hard to bring so much stuff and spend so much effort in helping others with their projects, that doing what you do looks tiring as hell. LOL)

The Laurel is because of the quality. The Pelican because of the effort. But the Kings Order of Excellence and ESPECIALLY the Court Baron are for making others feel welcome, inspired, assisted and cared for.

You are the opposite of any problem. You are the solution.

[baronessv.livejournal.com]

(I think the only possible harm that you might do, is that you work so hard to bring so much stuff and spend so much effort in helping others with their projects, that doing what you do looks tiring as hell. LOL)

*snarf* Can I second this part? I often think things along the lines of "I would totally love to do what Luke & Jehan do, but I may need to invest in a meth addiction to get up the energy..."
:D
Seriously, how DO you do it???

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

Actually - Luke has my undying admiration and respect for this, because so often he is doing this to make Baron Jehan look as good as he does.

There are so few acts of love and devotion this visible. It humbles me.

[rising-moon.livejournal.com]

This thread has encouraged a lot of folks to write that Excellence is magical in and of itself, and some to admit that Excellence scary. Well, I admit that it's both. But I join the folks who say that Excellence is always inspirational.

Damn, I forget the name of the event. It was years ago, a series of Shakespeare scenes put on in that big church where we'd had the Perigord feast. Remember that? Isabella sailed out early, on her way to another event?

Anyhow... At this event long ago there were hundreds of people crowding the hall, and I didn't know any of them who weren't getting ready to act in a scene. I found a quiet place by the wall and played my harp for a while.

A gentleman with lots of pewter charms on his hat found me there, sat down peaceably, and smiled as he listened. I had no idea who he was, but played on, gamely. When I finished, he asked where the tune I played came from. I admitted, bashfully, that I'd written it. He said it was quite lovely and invited me to play some more. He pulled out a recorder and played along with me.

When we finished my tune, he thanked me for teaching it to him. I asked if he'd teach me one. "Sure," he said. "Have you ever heard of the Cantigas?" I shook my head. "That's the short name for the English translation, Songs of Saint Mary." Nope, I hadn't heard of them.

So John Elys, Master of the Laurel, sat in a quiet corner with me and my harp and sang me "Santa Maria Strela Do Dia". After the first verse we picked a key and I chorded it while he sang. He suggested that I use the same synchopated chord pattern I'd used for my own song, since it would work perfectly. And it did.

Magic. You betcha. Excellence? Yes indeed.

(Thanks again, John.)

[shalmestere.livejournal.com]

(Thanks again, John.)

I'll tell him you said so.

(((hugs))) :-D

[hawkyns.livejournal.com]

Understood, Luke. Been there, as well you know. I don't play the Society game much anymore for just that reason. Do it right, and you get flack as a party pooper, stitch counter, or Nazi. Doesn't matter if the person you are trying to help wants to be helped, those who are there for the rolling beer party and gang fight don't want to take a chance that your authenticity might rub off on others and spoil their game with historic facts. The Society wants to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator and is proud of that. That is why I mostly only play in the 18th century any more. (325th Saratoga this weekend. Can't wait!) Used to be that we looked askance at the stitch counters of the Brigade. Now I'm right up there with them, and having a lot more fun.

Judgement is the key

[svava.livejournal.com]

I love all the effort you put into making things more period. Your joy from doing things the historical way is a wonderful thing to behold. I appreciate all of your hard work and enjoy the results. The thing that I have noticed is some people use "periodness" to judge others. Making it feel like an impossible exclusive club rather than using the opportunity to teach other to be more than they are. If more people could manage your ability to do things correctly, while not excluding people, and offering the hand to learn I don't think it would be a discussion at all.